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 Post subject: New Trap #15 function
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:49 pm 
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I need to access the Hardware controllers in the first 1000 bytes of DOS addresses. Dan


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:07 pm 
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Windows doesn't like you when you try to access I/O devices directly. What specifically are you trying to do?

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 Post subject: new tarp #15 function
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:08 pm 
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I need to access the floppy disk controller. I have a complete operating system for the 68000 on 3.5 in disks. The format of my disk is a llinked sector system and will not be read by any dos system. I believe that the controller in the pc is 37C65 which requires 4 addresses. HOW WOULD WINDOWS KNOW IF I access the controller. how do you get the time?? Don't you access the system timer in that area??. Why don't you give me the function and let me try and see if Window get upset as an experiment, if it creats problems don't release the function to the public.A 68000 computer needs a BIOS which is called a monitor, A disk operating system, a number of utility programs, an editor, an assembler, a disassembler, a basic etc. All of these I have, but your s-3 loader fill memery with $ff so I can not run 2 programs at the same time.
Thank you
Dan Farnsworth


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:04 pm 
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Quote:
HOW WOULD WINDOWS KNOW IF I access the controller.

The memory manager in Windows prevents direct access to memory outside the current program. The only way to access other areas of the system is through Windows system calls.

Quote:
how do you get the time??

To get the system time a Windows system call is made that returns the time.

Quote:
Why don't you give me the function and let me try and see if Window get upset as an experiment

Because it would cause a Windows Exception every time you tried to use it. If there is a Windows system call that returns the information you want I could include it.

Quote:
but your s-3 loader fill memery with $ff so I can not run 2 programs at the same time

If you want to load multiple programs into Sim68K at the same time use Open Data... to load the additional code.

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Last edited by profkelly on Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Trap #15 access to i/o
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:25 am 
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Location: Calvary, Georgia
Thank you for your prompt reply. I got the same information from Fred Brown of Peripheral Technology this after noon. Your offer to read from the disk controller won't do me any good if I can't writ to it. The 6809 group had to create an image of their software and store it in the pc memory. The answer to the problem is to transfer the source code to and IBM compatible disk and then assemble the code with your emulator. I cant send my text to an Ibm computer withou the 68000 computer, and if I get the computer back I won't need the emulator. However it might be smart for me to do that if it does get fixed. in case it goes bad again. I like the editor and assembler, they work great. I don't seem to be able to get line number in the editor program so I have to load the L file to gind my errors. If you ever find a way to implement a floppy disk at a read and writable address, I would appreciate it if you would inform me.
thanks again
Dan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:26 am 
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If your disks are readable by the PC controller then you can make images of them using something like Imagedisk which will copy a whole disk to an image file.

You can then acces these image files using the file read and write commands from within EASy68K.

I did something similar to be able to boot CP/M-68K with EASy68K.

Lee.


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 Post subject: Trap #15 adition
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:18 pm 
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Microsoft has WINDOW DRIVER KIT WDK. you can get it from the internet. It is free to software developers. How about trying to write a simple driver to read and write to the i/o area.
Dan


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 Post subject: Re: Trap #15 adition
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:08 pm 
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Dan wrote:
Microsoft has WINDOW DRIVER KIT WDK. you can get it from the internet. It is free to software developers. How about trying to write a simple driver to read and write to the i/o area.
Dan

Drivers are hardware specific. A driver written for chip set A will not work on chip set B.

Lee has a better idea. Read the data from the disks and place it in a file then use the file I/O routines to read it into your 68000 program.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:57 pm 
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Plus, you would have to have different driver versions for x86 and x64, plus different versions for Windows XP, Windows Vista, and of course 95/98/ME. (I'm not sure that anyone uses EASy68k on 95,98,ME anymore, but maybe?)



The whole idea of an operating system is to PREVENT user programs for tampering with hardware like you want to do. We all saw how reliable the Windows 95,98, and ME line was (not very).

The IDEA of an emulator like EASy68k is to NOT directly access the hardware. If EASy68K allowed direct access to real hardware somehow, simulated programs could damage your "real" computer instead of just "crashing" the simulated environment.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:18 pm 
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ABeakyboy wrote:
Plus, you would have to have different driver versions for x86 and x64, plus different versions for Windows XP, Windows Vista, and of course 95/98/ME. (I'm not sure that anyone uses EASy68k on 95,98,ME anymore, but maybe?)



The whole idea of an operating system is to PREVENT user programs for tampering with hardware like you want to do. We all saw how reliable the Windows 95,98, and ME line was (not very).

The IDEA of an emulator like EASy68k is to NOT directly access the hardware. If EASy68K allowed direct access to real hardware somehow, simulated programs could damage your "real" computer instead of just "crashing" the simulated environment.


The idea of an emulator is to allow someone to develop software for an architecture on a different architecture, with the options of simulating and debugging. Allowing access to hardware doesn't conflict with the idea of an emulator, it's simply something extra that is typically not added as a feature since the computer your working on is different from the architecture your emulating.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:41 pm 
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Salgat wrote:
The idea of an emulator is to allow someone to develop software for an architecture on a different architecture, with the options of simulating and debugging. Allowing access to hardware doesn't conflict with the idea of an emulator, it's simply something extra that is typically not added as a feature since the computer your working on is different from the architecture your emulating.

EASy68K does support hardware emulation and access to PC hardware (ie printers, file I/O) through Windows. I don't think we want to start adding hardware specific drivers to give us access to areas of the PC hardware that are normally off limits to Windows applications. As ABeakyboy points out there are many issues with doing that not the least of which is it would make it a nightmare to test and maintain. If there are Windows system calls that perform the hardware access then that is the way we should proceed.

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 Post subject: New Trap #15 function
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:50 pm 
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Thank all of you for your input. accessing the 4 registers of the 37c65 card would not involve any of the complictiona of different windows systems. However I have solved my problem by getting a 25 year old 68000 computer working and sending the source code thru hyper terminal. I could not get the xmodem protocol to work, but using text capture I got good results. The BIOS is now working, the DOS is working, about 20 utility programs are working, the PTBasic is working,
however the wod processing and business programs need a smart terminal to work. I have implemented 4 disk drives with 2 megs of data as virtual disks as was suggested, it works great super fast
Dan.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:45 pm 
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I'm glad you got your system working.

Dan wrote:
accessing the 4 registers of the 37c65 card would not involve any of the complication of different windows systems.
I don't want to belabor this point any more but just in case someone happens along and reads this post I don't want them to be misinformed. The 37c65 controller is only one of many floppy controllers available. If we were going to add direct hardware access in EASy68K to the floppy controller of a PC we would need to write a Windows driver for each and every chip set we wanted to support and each version of Windows would need a separate driver. That's why we use operating system calls to access hardware.

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 Post subject: New TRap 15 function
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:21 am 
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You are complicating the problem. My print out of the I/O memory has (http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/res/ioSummary-c.html) 3f0-3ffh as the location of the Floppy Disk controller and COM1 serial port. If those addresses were available it would be my responsibility to write a driver to access the formatt of the particular disk I want to read. I could also write a driver for the serial port and then use a smart terminal which is what I am using on my 68000 system . This would make my conversion to your simulator a snap
Thanks for your interest
Dan


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 Post subject: Re: New TRap 15 function
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:21 am 
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The Windows operating system does not permit direct access to I/O hardware. That is why it would be necessary to write a device driver. Any attempt to access memory location 3f0-3fh would cause a Windows exception.

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